I’m not very good at keeping my opinion to myself… Not when it really matters. If you’re in LOVE with that horrible shirt that makes you look like you’ve got one giant, wide tit perched atop your inner-tube belly, I’m not going to tell you it looks terrible… Not unless you try to wear it on a date or to an important client meeting or something. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter.
But if I think it’s important, I can’t keep my mouth shut. At least, as Anna says, I am “eloquent even when pissed.”
Since I’m not on my laptop presently, I’m just going to cut and paste the details rather than the screenshots of the status blasting I did today on Facebook.
It started with this:
Jami Oof, I’m all worked up. Ladies: attenshun! Yer bodies were made fer birthin’! That is all.
And then, my sister chimes in with:
Julie lol…
Uhh… What is she laughing at? Probably that she realizes the shitstorm that is about to occur on my status.
Ruth What exactly worked you up?
Jami One of my childhood friends started her hospital-based childbirth classes and was a little freaked out. I jumped on her status with encouraging words, a book that I think she should read and a suggestion to take my mother’s childbirth education class. Stressed the importance of being empowered AND educated.
Then one of her friends jumps on her status singing the praises of epidurals and beseeches her at the end, “You are getting an epidural, right???”
So… I went all hippy-on-my-soapbox and posted about the risks associated with interventions like epidurals and encouraged her to get educated AND empowered, not just pumped full of the tragic, complications and what-ifs that the hospital childbirth classes warn you about (read: freak you out about so that you will be a good little patient and listen, out of sheer fear, to whatever your doctor tells you *pats head*)
So, uh… I mean… I went a little crazy. But it really frustrates me when women are fearful of what we were biologically set up to do. It’s why we’re shaped the way we are… It’s why we’re the ones that carry the babies. The medicalization of childbirth makes me sick to my stomach.
So, yea… Not anything really crazy just yet, right? But I’m just getting warmed up.
Ruth Ah ok. So yeah, I’m definitely with you on everything. I’m not hippie-dippie about much of anything (I’ll take pretty much everything with preservatives and extra soap, thanks) but when it comes to pregnancy, childbirth and infant child-rearing I’m DEFINITELY a dirty fucking hippie.
Maggi Pssh – I did 80 situps lastnight and I’m ready for an epidural. All the patchouli and positive mantras in the world couldn’t talk me into pushing a person out of my vag without some type of numbing, be it meds or a fierce donkey punch, whatevs. But props to those who do it au naturel.
Jill Jami, I’ve just learned to not even try to be the holistic-health intervention in people’s lives. I just let it go in one ear and out the other. They have to be in a place of openness to begin to consider alternatives to the institutional healthcare conventions that have been dictated to us since childbirth from those whom we trusted the most, our parents and our doctors (however well meaning they were at the time). Otherwise, we’re just asking for a fight. Attraction rather than promotion, I suppose.
Ruth and I are soul-sisters, really. Maggi is hilarious and Jill is just right… But…
Jami I just cannot HELP it. A lot of things, I can just turn my head… But when people start singing the praises of epidurals like they’re some wonder drug or “happy juice” when in fact, they’re fucking up your chances to successfully breastfeed, they’re increasing your risk of an episiotomy, they’re doping up your baby, increasing your risk for a cesarean, they’re disconnecting you from the centuries-old magic of BIRTHING YOUR BABY, it just… it just bothers me.
I’d love it those moms who sit around and cheer on epidurals would also be as noisy when they’re nursing stitches on their nether regions from two holes being opened into one… I’d love it if they’d be real and honest about how the HELL they care for a baby when they had an emergency cesarean and they can’t stand up straight because of their stitches… I’d LOVE it to hear from them about the problems their babies had, in the NICU, difficulty breathing… I’d also LOVE to hear from them in a few years when their kids have other complications that could likely be traced back to being drugged up before they even took their first breaths!
Nobody does that.
See, I think more people need to sing the praises of natural childbirth… Not so much as “this is what you need to do” but like, “Fuck, the ring of fire burned… but I’m telling you what, when I was able to reach down and put my fingers inside me and touch my son’s head before he was born, before the ring of fire, that’s all I thought about when I started really doing the work of pushing. And when his head crowned through and I could feel all the intensity and the pressure and the burning, I could also feel my son’s father’s hands, holding our son’s head… Being connected all together as a family unit before he even took his first breath!”
THAT is the kind of stuff new moms need to hear. Fuck ‘em if they get grossed out by it… Having babies is sticky, messy business… But it’s incredible… And it’s a RIGHT. And when women just toss out their chance to FEEL that experience — when they’re flighty about it, it burns me up… Ungrateful, man. Just so ungrateful.
The part about reaching inside of myself and touching my son’s head while he was still in the birth canal? Totally true and might I add, in-fucking-credible! Any of those really amazing monumental shifts during my pregnancy were phenomenal. When he was breech and turned, I remember the feeling of him moving out from under my rib. It was like something out of Alien.
Maggi I don’t think there needs to be a “holier than thou” attitude towards a woman who chose an epidural. It’s a personal choice/preference and being given the riot act isn’t the best way to receive information. There are plenty of century old traditions/ways of life that are becoming more and more obsolete, esp in the case of medicine. There are pro’s and con’s to both sides, yes. I don’t see choosing an epidural and, in the process, perhaps causing damage to the health of you or your child any different than choosing to drink alcohol or smoke cigarrettes or indulge in processed foods. And if we’re speaking from the standpoint of “Well the baby doesn’t have a say in it.” – we as mothers allow A LOT that could be considered harmful for our children: Happy Meals, video games, tv, candy, cola, etc. I don’t think anyone can be considered a model parent, childbirth to present. You make choices as a parent, as a woman, as an adult and everyone isn’t always gonna be on your team, but in the end, they don’t live your life.
Jillian I had an epidural and, if that is your style, it is totally a wonder drug. If I could buy it on the black market I probably would. I also had a c-section, and other than not being able to bend over very far or laugh too hard, it wasn’t all that difficult to get around with staples and they only stayed in 2 weeks anyways. I also breast-fed for about as long as I wanted to, though I think I’ll try longer with the next one. Isaac, health wise, was and remains perfect except for your occasional cold or daycare gross-ness. I understand how passionate you are about this, but be careful. Preaching your gospel with that underlying tone of condescension will get you called a hypocrite quick. Hospital child birth is not a dangerous or uneducated choice. It is just not for you and a lot of other women out there. Just like natural or home childbirth is not for others, myself included. Being aggressive and lofty, I don’t think, is a good way to try to convert anyone. to anything.
And then, my soul-sister Shana comes swooping in:
Shana Maggi, you’re right, it is your choice. I think Jami just wants to encourage moms-to-be to get educated, but we all know, in the end it is a free country we live in.
Epidurals were not made to encourage wellness for moms or babies, they were made to make the lives of doctors easier when childbirth moved away from what was naturally occurring to isolated hospital beds and being strapped down. Before epidurals they used other drugs (like ether) to knock women out because the women were struggling against the restraints they’d been placed in. Not surprisingly, causing a woman to be unconscious while her body is doing the hard work of labor did not lead to increased health of mothers or babies, nor did it sit with husbands who saw their women completely out of it and sometimes bruised from the places where their restraints had been placed. The history of medicating birth in this country is brutal, it’s interesting, and it’s one that we should all consider before jumping on the band wagon of “being able to take the drugs.” Just because practices become obsolete, doesn’t mean the new practice is automatically an improvement.
Medically speaking, there really aren’t any pros to receiving an epidural. The pros are mostly psychological: it helps women think they can do it because now they’re being helped by pain medication. It’s like telling kids that $100 sneakers make them jump higher. But, epidurals don’t always take the pain away and do often lead to further interventions, as Jami mentioned.
Women in our culture take the epidural, more often than not studies show, because it’s waved in their faces and they’re culturally conditioned (in a big way) to be afraid. As one OB put it, if you’re on a diet and someone keeps waving cookies in your face, eventually you’re going to crack and take the cookie. If moms in hospitals were instead encouraged to be patient, move around, breathe, let go, accept, and trust their bodies not to split in half then the culture would be different (like it is in every single other developed nation (i.e. Norway, Japan, Sweden, Holland, Australia, UK, etc)). Jami, and other women who are the choir she’s preaching to, want that culture to change so that it supports and empowers WOMEN, instead of the medical industry. (it’s costs $40,000 to give birth in a hospital, but $4,000 to have a midwife, why aren’t insurance companies all over that? why did newly graduating OBs run smear campaigns against traditional midwives in the early 1900s?)
It’s not about being a model anything. It’s about knowing all of your choices, their consequences, and your willingness thereafter.
I’d be interesting to pop-quiz moms to be to see if they know the facts about the history of birth. Like that game, Truth-Truth-Lie where you pony up three statements, one of which is a lie but two of which are true… And do this about birth history. I’m sure there’s be a lot of shocked and surprised faces.
Jami Exactly… I think if women knew the whole story of birth… the whole history, they would be as fired up as me. Our mothers were the ones born to knocked-out, unconscious women… But our grandmothers? Our great-grandmothers? They were likely born at home with a family member or a midwife, letting their bodies do what they were naturally designed to do.
Something got messed up, historically, when science caught up with things like vaccines… People developed this infatuation with drugs. Not because they NEEDED them — but because they were told they should take them.
If you educate yourself — REALLY educate yourself — and learn about the pros and cons of a natural birth versus one with lots of interventions, and then you decide you still want the interventions — have at it. Just EDUCATE yourselves! Be proactive. Read books. Talk to other mothers. Don’t just listen to what the hospital or the doctors tell you. Find some unbiased people to bounce questions off of — people that aren’t profiting from your medical care. No skin off my nose if you are making an educated choice and we just happen to disagree.
The part that makes me angry is when women are flippant, dismissive and ready to take an epidural like it’s a cough drop. Just like any drug you’d get at the pharmacy, you’d want to know all the side effects. Most women who opt for interventions couldn’t even tell you what the drug they’re taking actually DOES to their body. That’s reckless. That’s dangerous… And THAT is the kind of thing that needs to be dug up from the roots and disposed of…
This isn’t me coming from a place of condensation. I don’t think that I am better than you (general you) because I had a natural assisted homebirth. But I’m pretty sure, when it comes to knowing the facts about biology and birthing, I’m smarter than you (general you).
Ok, so that last sentence there was a little… whatever… But it’s true! I mean, shit kids, my mom is a doula. I have been raised in a house full of discussions of placentas and perineal massage and evening primose oil and colostrum. You just absorb it, man.
Maggi I don’t know about you, but the most educated I’ve ever been – about anything in life – was when I was pregnant. And I think I speak for probably 80% of women when I say that. Outside of crackheads and kids having kids, I don’t know many women who don’t take pregnancy seriously and use every resource available to them to become educated on the entire process, inside and out. So of course women *know* they have the option for a home birth or one without medication. And I don’t know a doctor or hospital, especially in these times, that doesn’t hand you a stack of paperwork to read/sign before they lay a hand on you. So yes, you’re given plenty of info on the consequences of an epidural. And the majority of women have little to no complications. Hell, do you think I’d take half of the Rx meds that I do if I believed the warnings on the label?? I trust my body. I know my body. I know what it’s capable of, but most importantly, I know what *I* am capable of. Shit, let’s apply this mindset to everyday life – Why is there a fast food restaurant on every corner? Why do we pay $300 for exercise-based video games? Why are there drive thru versions of prcatically every service available? Because we are a LAZY society. We like to take the easy way out. It’s what we do. So unless you don’t take advantage of modern conveniences, I think it’s a moot point. But, we can agree to disagree :)
Jami “And the majority of women have little to no complications.” <– This is statistically inaccurate, Maggi.
But I do agree that, as a whole, people are lazy. We are happy to have someone else just tell us that they’re going to take care of things so we don’t have to think… It happens all the time — that doesn’t make it right. It doesn’t mean that trying NOT to be that way makes you self-righteous.
All in all, the point of my sharing all of this with you guys is to say this: don’t fucking be a lemming man! Especially a pregnant lemming.
No related posts.
Meh. It seems like the anti-drug homebirth ladies decided to go on a massive diatribe. Expressing your opinions in an overly dramatic fashion. That’s what it seems the other ladies did. “Cool, you do it your way and we’ll do it ours.” I hear these same rants from vegetarians, exercise nuts, supreme Christians and republicans.
If the argument had been dual sided I could understand the need for you and Shana. However, when they even say, “I don’t think there needs to be a “holier than thou” attitude towards a woman who chose an epidural. It’s a personal choice/preference and being given the riot act isn’t the best way to receive information.”
She had a point…and neither of ya’ll really listened. This was one of those agree to disagree situations that was completely avoided. If someone had said, “I’m curious, tell me more…” or “explain your opinion…” I could understand. Otherwise, you’re just forcing your opinion.
Think about all the times people start ranting about Christianity. Start ranting about how much they hate Obama. Start ranting about how Democrats are fucking up the country. You see these rants, and you hate them right? You kind of did the same thing.
Then again…maybe I just love drugs…and I don’t have a vagina.
The big difference in comparing this argument with that of fundies or political doofuses (these are all technical terms) is that my argument is based on statistics… facts… Not opinions. Not faith.
If you get an epidural, you are opening up the door to an avalanche of other interventions. It could be even more simplified to state that if you get (insert any intervention) you are opening yourself up to more interventions.
Vaginal exams, intentional breaking of the waters, fetal monitoring, restricting eating and or drinking… All of these things go against the grain of a natural, normal childbirth experience.
It IS a personal choice. But like anyone else who is spearheading a movement for change, I feel like it is my personal duty to do my part on a really small person-to-person scale to demystify the birthing process… To create an environment in which women can get FACTS about how birthing CAN be simple and natural and empowering.
I’m not sure I’ll ever get off this soapbox.
Then again, it was your own status…so you’re free to do whatever the fuck you want.
If it was on someone else’s status…
that’s exactly why i was laughing….
The number one procedure most done in hospitals today is a cesarean birth. It is the number one most frequently performed surgery. One in every three women have their babies cut out of them. Epidurals are an epidemic that cause dysfunctional labors- more use of pitocin- more use of forceps and vacuums, more episiotomies, and more babies who don’t seem to find the ability to come out vaginally… so to say there are not complications from epidurals is to speak without wisdom.
I’ve been reading for a while and never commented but I have to say I can’t agree more with Jamie and Shana! I understand the “it’s her choice to have an epidural” argument, but I honestly think that most women don’t understand the risks associated. The confidence people have in their doctors and nurses shouldn’t be understated- when a doctor tells you that you’d be more comfortable, it’d be easier, there’s less risk, etc. in having an epidural or C-section rather than a natural delivery, women BELIEVE them. And when it’s in the news that so many women do it, so many friends/sisters/mothers have done it, it becomes the norm. Part of it may be laziness but an awful lot lies in the trust women have for their health providers. Until more health providers (and insurance companies) start discussing natural birth as a more reliable option, women will be understandably afraid of doing it that way. Disclosure: the thought of giving birth scares the shit out of me and I almost passed out just reading the post… I speak not from my experience but from that of my friends. They were all pressured to have c-sections or epidurals even when they stated they wanted a natural birth.
the argument could have had a better chance at being dual sided if the people on the “other side” had responded with facts rather than emotions. apples and oranges. i wasn’t forcing my opinion as much as i was reciting the facts i’ve learned.
i’ve heard about women who become defensive or offended when this thread of discussion starts. the anthropologist discussing the phenomenon (http://www.davis-floyd.com/ShowPage.asp?id=155) talked about the women who were experiencing a negative reaction felt some how “less than” the women who were all up in the air with excitement over their successful home births. she talked about how the natural birth women will tend to quiet themselves so they don’t make the unsatisfied (or traumatized or angry) post-hospital care mamas bad or worse. that doesn’t help change. shutting up so you don’t hurt peoples’ feelings doesn’t really do any one (except the ones who’ve set the status quot) any good.
it’s a really personal thing, extremely so. i was definitely doing my best not to be preachy (which is why i usually refrain from online debates), but to provide information, and hopefully in an approachable way. but you know? if one’s emotions are already in the way, no amount of hand holding, asking “why do you think that?” (which, by the way, she already had made clear) is going to break that barrier.
i understand the passion here, it’s an important issue, but the “facts” everyone’s touting aren’t showing up…all i’m reading are opinions. you keep saying “this isn’t just an argument, i’m speaking with FACTS” but you haven’t yet proven that.
i would love some sources, i’m reading up on alternative/home birthing vs traditional methods and can use all the sources i can find.
The status debate continued on for a while after I created this post… Here’s where my mom dropped the fact bomb on everybody’s heads.
Jamie – I understand you feel strongly about this issue, but I think you ultimately hurt your case with the woman you first talked to. You got frustrated with the “sheeple” and let loose – which I totally get, because I do the same thing when I encounter people for whom FOX and Glenn Beck are their only source of news… But sending a book, or at least a link to an independent site would have probably gone down a bit better.
BTW – I love your blog and think you’re crazy smart.
Jami- do mind sharing a couple titles of books you or your mom would recommend? I have a friend interested in having a home birth and wants to compare info about midwives vs. doulas and the home birth process, but she’s having a hard time finding good, reliable information on the web. Any recommendations would be much appreciated!
From my mother:
Active Birth, Balaskas
Birthing from Within, England
Birthing in the Spirit, Daub
Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering, Buckley
Good Nights, Jay Gordon
Happiest Baby on the Block, Karp
Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth, Gaskins
Listening to Your Baby: A New Approach to Parenting Your Newborn, Jay Gordon
Pregnancy & Childbirth Secrets, Dahl
The Thinking Woman’s Guide to Childbirth, Goer
The Vaccine Book, Sears
The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding, LLLI
Thanks so much for that quick response! This should help A LOT!
I have been lurking about your website(s) for a few months now. Haven’t had a chance to catch up until today. I just want to give you a little of the other side of the equation.
I would have LOVED to have had a home birth or a water birth. I dreamed about that for years. Sadly, by the time I finally met a man I wanted to have children with, I was over 35 and had developed Type II diabetes. This made me a double whammy high risk pregnancy. No birthing center would touch me with a 10 foot pole. I was refered to three different specialists in addition to my OB. My OB and all of the specialists recommending giving birth at the hospital with a NICU on site. They also recommended an induction a week before my due date to avoid the possibility of fetal death, which rises dramatically after the due date and as the baby gets larger.
When I went in on September 8th at 7 am, I was only dialated 1/2 cm. They asked me if and when I wanted an epidural. I told them I would like to avoid it as long as possible and for them not to ask me about it again, that I would let them know if and when I felt I needed it. They started giving me doses of misoprostyl (I probably spelled this incorrectly) to dialate me ever three hours. At the end of the day, I had only dialated to 1 cm, so they put me on pitocin. Let me tell you pitocin is the devil, but I suffered though it all that night. The next morning…still 1 cm. They gave me more doses of misoprostyl…still nothing. More pitocin. Still 1 cm. After 36 hours of this, they broke my water. That’s when things got really crazy. I lasted exactly three hours with my water broken, on pitocin. I was having to get up to go to the bathroom every 10 or so minutes and I could barely walk from the pain. My poor husband had to hold me on the toilet because the contractions would knock me over. They had been every three minutes for the last 24 hours.
After 39 hours of induction, I broke down and begged for the epidural. I was STILL only 1 CM in spite of everything. It was like a battering ram inside me. I finally slept for the first time since we had checked into the hospital. Unfortunately, I still didn’t dilate and my son’s heartrate started to drop. So yes, I did end up having an emergency C-section after 44 hours. My son was born September 10th.
You know what, I was as educated as I was ever going to be, and I think that natural birth is a wonderful thing…for those who are healthy and have no high risk indicators. You will never guilt me into feeling bad about bring my son into this world via medical means because you know what? He is here and I am here and we are both fine. I feel deep in my soul that if we hadn’t had the care that we had one or both of us might be dead right now.
And for the record, they kept me in the hospital for four more days, but by the time we went home, I was climbing our stairs and nursing my son and I breastfed him until he was a year old. And he is beautiful…and I can’t wait to have another, in spite of the fact that I know that I will never have a natural birth. I don’t feel any less of a woman or a mother for it.
You are more than welcome to your facts and I realize that you are more addressing those women who are like “Hook me up as soon as possible and keep it coming”, but I also want you to realize that the way that you phrased some of your statements could be very hurtful to those of us who very much wanted to be as natural as possible couldn’t hack it for one reason or another.
And this is why I’m not a doula or a birth professional or affiliated with any network of homebirthing fancy clubs.
My statements were directed at a very specific kind of pregnant woman and they were intended as rant, not an essay for widespread personal application. I get it, I really do…
If I had a hospital birth instead of a home birth, I have no doubts that my experience would be very similar to yours. Complications aside, unnecessary interventions are the devil and I will never think otherwise. If you have a medical condition that requires you to be induced or whatever, that’s it. There’s not a lot you can do about it. Modern medicine isn’t the devil in my eyes — it’s the unnecessary application of interventions on perfectly healthy women.
Don’t take it personally. I’m super glad you were able to muscle through your birth experience and I’m doubly proud of you for breastfeeding for a year. I’m not a hater of all women who have hospital births… I’m a hater of the dumb broads who DON’T know their choices, who DON’T take childbirth classes, who HAVE NO CLUE what the interventions are really doing to their bodies. Like Phaedra from The Real Housewives of Atlanta — she is a fucking LAWYER and is supposed to be smart, has three degrees, etc… But she was STUPID. Never took a childbirth class and was dumbfounded by the simplest things.
Don’t throw me out, Lisa. I’m not fighting against your cause. :)
Not throwing you out Jaime! :) Just touched a nerve and had to (rather hastily and full of typo-ly, ha!) vent my own spleen, if you will.
I agree with you about people who go into pregnancy (and parenthood) with absolutely no education whatsoever. Don’t watch any of the Real Housewives shows, but to my mind, money and a college degree doesn’t always equal class or intelligence. As those shows clearly demonstrate.
hi Jami,
found you from DW and have spent the last week reading a bit obsessively here to “catch up” to current. thought an earlier post might have alluded to a hb. i liked you before, but just might love you now! i’m usually more of a lurker, and i’m nak, but just want to say that my first was born by a classic intervention laden labor followed by a cs. second and third were hbs, and all 3 with what the med. estab. would consider high risk factors (ama & overweight). i may be a bit biased, but i didn’t think there was anything offensive in the points that you made. information contrary to highly medicalized births has to come from somewhere, and your ob sure isn’t going to tell you. i thought that i had highly educated myself before my first was born, dh and I tried to advocate for ourselves, and still ended up with what i didn’t want. i think women need to hear about natural birth from people they know the same as they would hear about a hospital birth so that they both can be culturally “normal”. now i’m feeling like i need to go post something natural birthy as my fb status…
Well, I love you too! :) Haha… Thanks for trickling over here. I don’t update nearly as often as I should… But this place is way more me than Date Wrecks ever could be.